interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Alles technische, was sonst nirgends paßt
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sid
Beiträge: 2210
Registriert: So 24. Nov 2002, 12:12
Wohnort: Tennessee

interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von sid »

8!! ventile pro zylinder!!, und was cool ist ist das die kolben nicht rund sind.
ich dachte die müssen rund sein damit sie nicht zu heiss werden und eine kleine fläche haben.

Bild

Bild

hier ein kopf von einem audi :
[imghttp://home.earthlink.net/~hansjensen/HANZ_enginehouse/audi_head2.jpg[/img]
der ist auch von yamaha entwickelt worden.

und jetzt der oberschocker:

der legendären 2000gt, desen motor urahn vom 5mge 7mge,7mgte usw ist... der ist in zusammenarbeit mit yamaha entwickeld worden!!

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BJ Axel
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von BJ Axel »

Achja, der gute alte Ovalkolbenmotor.
Sehr kurzes Leben, sehr hohe Leistung, sehr teure Kolbenringe.

Aber so nen 20V ist nichts ungewöhnliches, fahr ich selber einen.
Yamaha FZR1000genesis, 4 Zylinder, 20 Ventile (putzige Dingers ;)), 110kW sowas. Geht gut.

Axel
23 Jahre Power-Trax.de - Ingenieurbüro, Sonderfahrzeugbau, Hydraulik-, PTO-, Druckluft-, Berge- & Energiesysteme - Quad, 4x4 bis LkW, Victron Bordnetzsysteme - 22 Jahre BTT-Forum

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moritz
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von moritz »

Ist eine faszinierende Palette für einen Technologiekonzern -  vom Flügel bis zum Mofa, vom Verstärker bis zum Sportbogen. Wollte immer mal umsteigen, aber seit ein, zwei Jahren bauen sie keine Bögen mehr.
Dafür steckt noch immer Yamaha in manchem Toyo, und auch im brandneuen Volvo V8.
Grüße vom Möchtegern-Sowjet
sbJ40[url=http://www.sbj40.gmxhome.de/Jemand_noch_einen_kleinen_sbJ40,_vielleicht.htm]*[/url]:
sooner or later a little ZiL, but still
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moritz
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von moritz »

Den Herren hab' ich vorhin vergessen:
http://www.motorbau.de

Der Jimenez (was gab's eigentlich für V8 von Yamaha? Außenborder?) ist auch mit auf der Seite.
Grüße vom Möchtegern-Sowjet
sbJ40[url=http://www.sbj40.gmxhome.de/Jemand_noch_einen_kleinen_sbJ40,_vielleicht.htm]*[/url]:
sooner or later a little ZiL, but still
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Wastl
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von Wastl »

Hallo zusammen,
der V 4 mit Ovalkolben ist meines Wissens nach von Honda in den späten Achzigern gebaut worden. Ursprünglich sollte es ein V 8 mit 750ccm werden, der dann aber vom MotoGP Reglement ausgebremst wurde. Die Kolbenringe waren und sind wohl immernoch ein gut behütetes Geheimnis der Honda-Ingeneure.

Nachzulesen in: "Dream Bikes, Traum-Motorräder aus aller Welt" von  Alan Cathcart


MfG

Wastl
There's no need for streets, think green!

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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von BJ Axel »

:)
Auf Motorbau.de hat er den V8 aus zwei Motorradmotoren zusammengebaut, die identisch mit dem meiner FZR1000 sind. Sehr fein!

Aber Dauerhaltbarkeit sei mal dahingestellt, die Literleistung ist schon extrem.

Axek
23 Jahre Power-Trax.de - Ingenieurbüro, Sonderfahrzeugbau, Hydraulik-, PTO-, Druckluft-, Berge- & Energiesysteme - Quad, 4x4 bis LkW, Victron Bordnetzsysteme - 22 Jahre BTT-Forum

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Rico1
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von Rico1 »

Richtig,
das Serienfahrzeug war von Honda - Anfang der 90er Jahre.
Modellbezeichnung NSR 750
Deutschlandweit wurden 3-4 Stück verkauft
Stückpreis damals: 100.000,- DM
Die Inspektion für die Motorräder durfte nur von einem einzigen Mechaniker (von Honda Deutschland) durchgeführt werden.

Gruß
Rico

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moritz
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von moritz »

Im S2000 bemühte Honda nur vier Zylinder für die gleichen Werte und Drehzahlen. Kann sein, daß sie die Wartungsintervalle auf Ferrariniveau gesenkt haben, aber auffällig wurde er bis heute wohl nicht. Auf 2,2liter und weniger Drehzahl gingen sie dann jedenfalls zugunsten der Fahrbarkeit. ( Mir tun Ferrarifahrer im Stadtverkehr immer schrecklich leid, wenn sie wie McDonaldskunden mit 4000rpm von Ampel zu Ampel röhren, um ihn nirgends abzuwürgen. )
Das Kunststück war eigentlich weniger, ihn standfest zu bekommen, als ein nennenswertes Drehmoment vor Nenndrehzahl zu erreichen. In der Preisklasse war's geradezu eine Meisterleistung.
Der Celica TS (192 aus 1.8) war davon übrigens nicht so weit entfernt.
Der Motor läuft auch im Elise, aber selbst dort sind die Zeiten fast vorbei - bemüht man für die aktuelle Verschärfung lieber wieder Lader.
Back to those Roots.
(Die Pressemeldung dort lohnt sich.)




(Edited by moritz at 12:28 am 3. Mar. 2005)
Grüße vom Möchtegern-Sowjet
sbJ40[url=http://www.sbj40.gmxhome.de/Jemand_noch_einen_kleinen_sbJ40,_vielleicht.htm]*[/url]:
sooner or later a little ZiL, but still
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fraschumi
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von fraschumi »

@moritz
Stimmt............ fast.
Toyota probiert es mit Kompressor,  beim Corolla.
Lotus und der "Privatbereich" mit Turbolader,  auch privat durchaus mit ansehnlichen Ergebnissen......;)

Gruß Frank

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moritz
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von moritz »

In der Pressemeldung steht doch ausdrücklich Eaton M62 + Roots. Weißt Du Anderes?

Auszug:                    (Link siehe oben.)
The standard Exige uses a 189 hp (141 kW, 192 PS) 2ZZ-GE 1.8 litre VVTL-i (Variable Valve
Timing with Lift – intelligent) engine supplied by Toyota. This high revving engine is governed to
a maximum engine speed of 8500 rpm with a change between two cams (a high speed cam and
a low speed cam) at between 5800 rpm and 6200 rpm depending upon the operating conditions
of the car.
The supercharged engine in the Lotus Sport Exige 240R has a maximum power output of 243
hp (181 kW, 246.8 PS) at 8000 rpm and a torque figure of 174 lbft (236 Nm, 24 kgm) at 7000
rpm. This vast amount of extra power and torque now available means that the cam change
between the low-speed cam and the high-speed cam now takes place at around 4000 rpm
giving a smooth and linear surge of power from 4000 rpm all the way to the maximum 8500 rpm.
The equivalent power output of a standard 3.0 litre engine was the target when the initial
research and feasibility study got underway in the Autumn of 2004. Working closely with Lotus
Engineering’s world leading Powertrain Research Team, the advanced 1.8 litre VVTL-i 2ZZ-GE
engine was fitted with a supercharger and intercooler system

NEWS RELEASE Page 3 of 8

  
    

Engine Down-Sizing is the Key
One of the key demands of the automotive industry is to produce engines with not only low
emissions and high fuel economy but also extremely good performance. These two demands for
performance and economy are not normally compatible unless there is a significant change in
the engine development strategy.
Lotus Sport required more horsepower and torque for the Lotus Sport Exige 240R and therefore
approached Lotus Engineering’s Powertrain Team, who had been conducting extensive
research into “engine downsizing”. Engine downsizing is the concept of using advanced
technologies to enable a small engine to produce the power and torque of a much larger engine,
with the obvious reduction in fuel consumption and emissions.
Lotus is one of the first organisations to not only recognise the changing market and legislative
demands but also to actually develop a solution to the problem – supercharging a high
compression ratio and high speed engine.
Lotus Sport and Lotus Engineering had to ensure that there were minimal changes to the base
2ZZ-GE engine, which arrives fully dressed from Toyota for the Exige and the Elise 111R. The
lightweight 2ZZ-GE engine, with a compact metal matrix composite alloy cylinder block, is a
perfect unit on which to conduct the necessary research, as it runs to a high 8500 rpm, with a
very high compression ratio of 11.5:1. The only changes needed to be made to the engine were
the addition of a low pressure Eaton M62 Supercharger (and the longer drive belt that this
requires), the intercooler and a new intake manifold, plenum and induction system.
The Roots-type Eaton M62 supercharger (with a sealed-for-life internal mechanism meaning that
it does not require the use of the engine’s oil) is run from the crankshaft, and has an integral
bypass valve for part load operation.
Charge air (air under pressure from the supercharger) is cooled through a Lotus Sport Air to Air
intercooler (the cooling air enters via the roof scoop) before being fed into the engine itself
All charge air ducting has been kept as short as possible with large diameter pipes making sure
that the bends in these ducts are not too tight, to the benefit of throttle response and efficiency.
Grüße vom Möchtegern-Sowjet
sbJ40[url=http://www.sbj40.gmxhome.de/Jemand_noch_einen_kleinen_sbJ40,_vielleicht.htm]*[/url]:
sooner or later a little ZiL, but still
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moritz
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von moritz »

Also zu schämen, für den Toyo-Motor, scheint man sich nicht bei Lotus: http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2005/ ... 80x960.jpg
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2005/ ... 0x1440.jpg

Wäre mal interessant zu wissen, zu welchen Konditionen Toyota eigentlich Aggregate abgibt.
Grüße vom Möchtegern-Sowjet
sbJ40[url=http://www.sbj40.gmxhome.de/Jemand_noch_einen_kleinen_sbJ40,_vielleicht.htm]*[/url]:
sooner or later a little ZiL, but still
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RobertL
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von RobertL »

Auch ein interessantes Konzept. Wurde am Forum schon mal diskutiert glaube ich.

Bild
lg Robert

Nächster Stammtisch am 4.4.2024 ab 17:00 beim "Roter Hiasl"
https://www.roterhiasl.at/

Chevy Van G20 4x4 Pathfinder - 6,2D V8

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moritz
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von moritz »

Deren Konkurrenz ist leider wohl nur noch per Archiv zu finden:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www ... ngines.com
oder auf niederländisch
http://www.autokompas.nl/archief/2003/0 ... ency_.html
Bild

Ein .pdf, das ich ich nicht mehr finde:
Bild

Und zwei englische Texte, die inzwischen auch nicht mehr online sind:

Engine design is a smack in the gob
By Dave Wilson
A new motorcycle engine, that made its debut at the British Supermotard event in October, has already set something of a speed record in its journey from concept to competition.
In fact, it took less than four weeks from the first spark of an idea to rolling the motorcycle out onto the tarmac ready for race day.
The motorcycle itself is powered by an engine with a unique rotary valve cylinder head developed by Roton Engine Developments of Queensferry, North Wales, and designed with a little help from RAND Worldwide.
It was put through its paces on the challenging Lydden Hill Supermotard Circuit, Kent, in the British Supermotard championships on October 25-26th in what was hoped to be an impressive showcase for the engine's capabilities.
Engineer Kingsley Wright is an expert in the intricacies of the four-stroke internal combustion engine and has been building race engines for clients for over twelve years.
In an effort to drastically improve the breathing of his race engines, he decided to look to other fields of engineering the control of fluids and gasses. A rough idea emerged and soon after he met Roger Whiteman, whose principle experience was in the field of metallurgy and component evaluation in the automotive industry.
Together, they formed Roton Engine Developments which now employs a team of six.
Roton specialise in designing rotary valve cylinder heads for internal combustion engines. The cylinder heads can be adapted for any current or future cylinder block from all the main Original Equipment Manufactures, both for four-stroke petrol and diesel engines, and for cars as well as motocycles.
The design of the motorcycle engine incorporates a unique Roton sealing system that allows the rotary valve to rotate freely while still creating a gas tight combustion chamber. The effect is a powerful engine with low emissions.
Two years ago, Kingsley was trying to get the project off the ground and looking to find support from backers and buyers.
In a speculative move, he went to the AutoSport International Trade show 18 months ago looking for information on computer aided design systems. It was there that he came across the RAND Worldwide stand.
'The project was entirely self-financed, and money was really tight. I didn't have the money to buy a full CAD system, but I knew that it was the way forward. RAND were really interested in my concept and asked if they could design it. They came to my house and within eight hours the idea had gone from thoughts in my head to a fully worked-up design and drawings' said Kingsley.
'I was absolutely gob-smacked, I didn't think such things still happened.'



Valves in a spin

By Jon Excell
Developments in cylinder valve technology suggest there could be life left in the old combustion engine yet. Jon Excell reports.
Since the age of 12 Kingsley Wright has been fine-tuning an idea that has the potential to make the internal combustion engine more efficient, more powerful and more environmentally friendly.
Now, 18 years on, the final pieces of the jigsaw are almost in place, and Wright, the self-proclaimed 'saviour' of the combustion engine, is certain that he stands on the brink of global success.
At his company in Wales, Roton Engine Developments, Wright has developed an innovative valve concept for the IC engine; a system where the intake and exhaust valves of a conventional IC engine are replaced with a rotary valve - a vented rotating shaft attached to the engine's crankshaft.
Throughout the history of the car the poppet valve has dominated combustion engine design. In a conventional piston engine the rotation of the camshaft opens a spring-loaded poppet valve that enables the fuel/air mixture to enter the combustion chamber. The camshaft then closes this valve during the compression and combustion stroke of the cylinder and opens a second spring-loaded valve to vent the cylinder after ignition.
However, the poppet valve is not without its problems. First, it requires a large number of mechanical components including camshafts, lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, valve springs and seals. These components generate heat and noise, and limit the overall speed at which the engine can operate.
One of the main reasons for this is that as revolutions of the engine increase, the ability of poppet valves to open and close in time decreases in efficiency to the point where power output cannot increase further. The size and location of the valves also limit the total volume ofair/fuel mixture allowed into the combustion chamber.
With his Roton system Wright has replaced the poppet valves and camshafts with a rotating valve located within a guideway in the cylinder head. This rotating valve, or shaft, contains a number of holes, or ports, which, depending on the valve's position as it rotates, alternately provide a link between the combustion chamber and either the exhaust or inlet manifolds.
By co-ordinating the rotation of the shafts and properly positioning the intake and exhaust ports relative to the shafts or holes, a combustible mixture of fuel and air is allowed into the combustion chamber, burnt and then exhausted.
Clearly one of the most important things here is the seal between the valve and cylinder head. This must be absolutely airtight to avoid loss of compression. Poppet valves, despite their attendant disadvantages, actually do this reasonably well - and perhaps this is the reason why they've survived for so long.
However, the key to Wright's invention is a sealing mechanism that allows the rotary valve to rotate freely while still creating an air-tight combustion chamber. Wright explained that while most previous attempts at creating a rotary valve focused on using the shaft as the seal, he concentrated on the cylinder head instead.
So in the Roton, the cylinder head contains a seal that moves from a non-sealing position, in which it is moved away from the valve, and a sealing position, in which it is forced on to the valve by gaseous pressure from within the cylinder.
Wright was unwilling to go into the specifics of the sealing system but he admitted that its performance is largely thanks to the application of an innovative material technology.
Whatever the method, the improvementsare indeed impressive, and perhaps most noticeable is the reduction of engine-related noise and vibration thanks to the removal of the valvetrain.
By replacing one of the biggest causes of engine noise the car designer is then able to remove the heavy sound-deadening material used in today's vehicles and make more efficient use of the space.
However, the most significant advantage is clearly imparted by the valve itself. In a rotary valve engine the flame front is not in contact with a stationary poppet valve - which just presents one face to the flame and so works at constantly high temperatures.
The rotating valve travels out of the combustion area as the shaft spins, and transfers heat to the cooling system.
Because of this, the ignition of fuel can occur far closer to the highest point of the piston during its stroke than when a red-hot poppet valve is in a race with the spark plug to detonate the fuel.
According to Wright, it is this single piece of freedom - the ability to run at higher compression ratios - that gives a Roton-equipped engine a huge power advantage over a poppet-valve engine.
The inventor added that the technology may also stimulate the use of bio-fuel (derived from crops). Thebeauty of this kind of fuel is that it is carbon neutral, and therefore doesn't contribute towards the greenhouse effect. One of its disadvantages has been that it doesn't produce as much portable power as fossil fuels.
Wright said that his team has identified a technique to enable an engine equipped with a rotary valve system to run exceptionally cleanly.
'This idea allows you so much more flexibility when it comes to raising the compression ratio that you can run it on grown oil and still get better performance than you have now with conventional engines,' he said.
While engineers have been working on rotary valve concepts for years, Wright suggested that the concept has been stymied by the sealing problem. By solving this and taking the best ideas from a number of developments,Wright claimed that he has developed a concept with great commercial promise.
The dream started to become reality when a550cc motorcycle equipped with the Roton rotary valve cylinder head was driven by his friend's son in theBritish Supermotard event.
Wright said the engine modifications for the bike's single-cylinder engine have been relatively easy to make, and that the lessons learned from this will be carried over relatively quickly into the development of a multi-cylinder engine.
He has already built two Roton systems for a K-series Rover in his workshop and the figures are impressive. 'When I told a guy who tunes K-series cylinder heads that I managed to get this to breathe at 188ft^2per minute out of an 1,800 K-series he nearly fell off his chair, because straight off the factory floor the figure is 75ft^2 per minute.'
But Wright is not alone. US company Coates International has also developed a variation on the rotary valve theme.
Based on ideas developed by company founder George Coates, the Coates Spherical Rotary Valve System (CSRV) also does away with poppet valves, but replaces them with spherical valves that rotate in a cavity formed between a two-piece cylinder head.
Each spherical valve rotates against a matching seal between it and the piston, one for intake and one for exhaust. The spheres have cavities and ports machined into them for the induction of fuel and air on the intake stroke, and the evacuation of fired gases on the exhaust stroke.
The system uses a seal at the intake and exhaust ports of the cylinder to prevent pressure leakage. This two-piece seal contacts with the peripheral surface of the rotary valve and uses the compression and expansionof the fuel and air mixture to create a gas-tight seal with the valves.
The system boasts the same advantages as the Roton. It is said to improve efficiency and power output, reduce emissions and lubrication requirements, be cheaper to manufacture and suitable for retrofitting to combustion engines of all sizes. Like the Roton it also dispenses with hundreds of components that make up the valvetrain on conventional engines.
The company has completed several engine prototypesequipped with the CSRV, five for cars and two for motorcycles. The most recent car prototype hasbeen started over 7,000 times and has been road tested over 40,000 miles. The motorcycle engines were retrofitted for a major motorcycle manufacturer.
But Wright is sceptical about its chances of success. 'Ours is cheaper, more reliable and doesn't add inertia to the engine,' he said. In his view, the spheres on the CSRV are more difficult to manufacture and take up more space than his system, plus their operation means that the air still has to turn through 90 degrees.
This, he claimed, means that the CSRV doesn't breathe as well as the Roton.
Ultimately, Wright thinks that the Coates system is just too different. While he agreed with Coates that it's certainly an improvement on existing technology he added: 'It's like trying to introduce a rotary engine - a great idea, but one that is too radically different to be guaranteed public acceptance.'
Wright is a lot more optimistic about the future of his own technology. This is perhaps inevitable, but it's hard not to be swept along by his enthusiasm. In the short term there's a lot of interest in Roton, although its inventor is tight-lipped about who's involved - just that it's 'a very well-known English sports car manufacturer with interests in other parts of the world' that is about to get 'seriously involved'.
In the longer term, Wright's aims are nothing less than global domination. 'In three or four years' time our system will be under the bonnet of every single car in the world,' he predicted.


Aber richtig wild sind die:
http://golubevmachines.com/ru/innovations.html


(Edited by moritz at 23:03 am 5. Mar. 2005)
Grüße vom Möchtegern-Sowjet
sbJ40[url=http://www.sbj40.gmxhome.de/Jemand_noch_einen_kleinen_sbJ40,_vielleicht.htm]*[/url]:
sooner or later a little ZiL, but still
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RobertL
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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von RobertL »

Ob da tatsächlich mal eine Hardware von dem Einzylinder Konzept gemacht wurde? Zumindest sieht das Konzept nicht sehr "ausgereift" aus und wurde sicher nicht mit CATIA V5 gemacht. Mit dem Ding arbeite ich nämlich täglich, verdiene meine Brötchen damit,  und da sieht die Geometrie anders aus. RAND arbeitet hauptsächlich mit Pro/Engineer.

(Edited by RobertL at 23:50 am 5. Mar. 2005)
lg Robert

Nächster Stammtisch am 4.4.2024 ab 17:00 beim "Roter Hiasl"
https://www.roterhiasl.at/

Chevy Van G20 4x4 Pathfinder - 6,2D V8

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interesantes bild von einem etwas anderen motor

Beitrag von RobertL »

Bild
lg Robert

Nächster Stammtisch am 4.4.2024 ab 17:00 beim "Roter Hiasl"
https://www.roterhiasl.at/

Chevy Van G20 4x4 Pathfinder - 6,2D V8

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